Launching Search Central Live Deep Dive

Hello and welcome to another episode of
Search Off the Record, a podcast coming
to you from the Google Search Relations
team, where we talk about all things
search and maybe have some fun along the
way. My name is Martin Splitt. I am a
search relations engineer at the search
relations team at Google and with me is
uh Cherry. Hi Cherry.
Hello.
Would you like to introduce yourself a
little bit? Not really. Do I have to?
No.
Well, I have another guest here, Gary.
Hi Gary, would you like to introduce
Cherry?
Hello, my name is Gary Splitt. Um and
I would rather not introduce Cherry
because uh in my opinion everyone should
know who Cherry is already, because she
was already on the podcast.
Year one, I I think. Still we introduce
ourselves sometimes, no?
Okay. Uh Cherry is uh
Cherry. Okay, that's that's great.
That's great.
Fine, I'll do it. Ah. Fine. How do we do
this?
Well, how you say do? So, you are you
are saying words and eventually they
form sentences that people sometimes
understand.
Let let let let let me try that that. Um
so, I'm Cherry. I'm from the search
relations team. And you might have seen
me around on our videos.
Maybe blog and maybe in person at our
events.
I'm the only person in the team who's
based outside Zurich and no, I'm I'm not
sad. I'm not lonely.
I may not really get as much cheese as
my teammates do, but I do get
lots of sunshine in Singapore.
Which we don't get here in Zurich.
Well, it's also raining here now, so
it's yeah. This is going well.
But you're you're selling it so well,
it's amazing. I am immediately sold on
this.
So, I don't really know how this work.
It might be helpful if you tell me
fantastic.
to do here.
Tell us a little more about the Search
Central Live events in Asia, because I'm
not sure if everyone knows our Search
Central Live events yet. I think they
should, because how could you like do
you live under a rock or something if
you don't know our Search Central Live
events?
Uh and I know that you are doing a lot
of them in the APAC region.
Yes, so maybe
Wait, I should explain what Search
Central Live is, right? Just in case,
right? Yeah, just in case.
yeah. So, we started Search Central Live
actually long long time ago as Webmaster
Conference. Was it 2019 or something,
right? Like long ago.
no.
Before that. Like the the first name was
Google Dance. Yes. Oh, yeah yeah yeah.
And that was 2006 or something.
And then with Nathan we reanimated it in
2014 or 15 or something and then it was
transformed into Webmaster Conference.
And then now to Search Central Live.
It's a flagship event series that is
organized by our team.
Um we bring search talks to your
locations in your languages and also
give you place, you know, to
hang out with other people in the search
world and for us as well to see people
from time to time.
And that's nice.
Yeah.
I think I think We did virtual events as
well during the pandemic.
Uh
Mm.
So, our Search Central Live events have
so far been like half-day or full-day
events, right? But you have announced
something different now.
Yeah, so I think in APAC we have been
doing a lot of Search Central Live and
usually it's for us it's about like few
hours, so we start about 9 and then ends
about 5.
Um and
my mathematics skills really good. I
don't know how many hours that is.
But it's like a full-day thing and I
think in some locations it's like
half-day thing and because we have been
running a lot of these, right? In many
locations and many years now.
And I think we have always tried to also
improve the events and we spend a lot of
time looking at feedback as well from
these events and actually quite often we
see things like people want longer
duration event. Can we make it into a
few days event? Make it a week-long
event? Can we get more advanced content?
Can we have more practical workshop? And
all these things. So, I think since last
year Gary and I have been cooking up
this idea of having a more advanced
longer and also more extended version of
Search Central Live events and that's
how we came up with Search Central Live
Deep Dive. Ooh, nice.
And uh
remember why we chose that name
actually, the deep dive.
Oh, I know.
You do? I I have a theory.
thing. Okay.
I thought you've been like maybe
planting a seed in my head by talking
quite a bit about diving.
And also I think it doesn't help that I
see lots of like diving photos from
Martin as well.
So, I think I
I think it was all planned. I don't
know, but then I went like Search
Central Live Deep Dive and then I had
like the logo of Googlebot diving in my
head. And then yeah, there's no turning
back from that.
pretty amazing. I've I've seen the logo,
it's fantastic. I love it so much.
And is the only difference to the normal
Search Central Lives that you do a
multi-day event or is there other things
like
I mean, on Search Central Live typically
we have a Q&A session and then
some talks and maybe a bit of
networking.
Is there something new coming to the
deep dives?
Yeah, so like with longer time, of
course we can talk about more things,
deeper things. We can have more um
time for networking as well, more, you
know, interactive things as well or even
like practical things that usually we
might not have it. Things like maybe you
know, with hackathon or all these
things. We don't We probably won't have
hackathon, but at least a practical
workshops that people can like, you
know, do things while we are giving talk
and stuff like that. We barely had time
for those things if we are doing things,
you know, like half-day or full-day. So,
of course with longer time we can
explore all these things and
I hope it's going to be nicer and hope
going to give people more things. Yeah.
Yeah.
Um one of my pet peeves with uh Search
Central Live is that
we have these
well-rehearsed talks that speed through
one topic and then
you do that with that information
whatever you want. Um like basically we
don't have time. Like we have 25 minutes
maybe for a
um for a talk.
And
it's it's a very very very hard to
contextualize the information that you
just got.
Um and then
like afterwards people would ask um like
reference back to one particular topic
and then they would ask about it either
in the Q&A or in the hallways or
whatever.
But why not
do it on stage? Well, one reason is that
you don't have time. Mhm.
Um to to actually con- to contextualize
everything. Um and also how do you link
the topic that you
talked about to something tangible like
like for example, if you're talking
about crawling, then
how do you show people how that looks
like
in Search Console or in server logs or
whatever if you don't have
uh the time. If you only have 25 minutes
or even less.
So, like I I'm super happy that like we
will have actual
time to develop topics and to
contextualize topics. I think
like we see it in the community that
when we manage to somehow contextualize
something, then
that particular topic becomes more um
or people become more advanced in that
topic. Um like thinking about rendering
for example in JavaScript shenanigans,
we have at least two people
um who are
extremely
versed in rendering topics like
externally. Um you're smiling, so you
probably know who I'm talking about,
Martin. Mhm. Um
and I'm I'm pretty sure that if you
haven't started talking about rendering
in a more
well, in a deeper way and
contextualizing stuff like JavaScript
and crawling and fitting stuff together,
um it like the the community wouldn't
be
there or at least not at this level.
That's true. That that's a that's a good
point. And um
I I think you're raising another
interesting point, which is like the the
people ask them in the hallway
and the networking bits. Um
I I think people are are looking for
something different than the just like
the
the front-centric, because it's nice
that we can share our point of view on
the stage, but
the interesting thing, at least for me,
is really the hallway track where people
come back and actually give me their
ideas or concerns or problems that they
run into and and this feedback channel
is like really important and I have the
feeling that traditionally at
conferences, including the traditional
Search Central Live conferences, there
isn't enough room for this.
Yeah. Yeah. Also, like things like
lightning talk, I don't know, poster
sessions, all these things are things
that I think we really want to have. We
pilot some of the lightning sessions. I
think lightning community lightning talk
in some of our events. Yes.
But then, of course, like with limited
time, it's just like really hard to, you
know, let people showcase like all the
amazing work that they do, all the stuff
that they are using and things like
that. So,
yeah, I think with more time we
definitely can also have room for a lot
more of that.
Yeah.
Also, the lightning talk part, um we we
also found that it's super important
that
uh specific countries have local
communities. Mhm. Um and with lightning
talks, you kind of highlight people who
are
good in a particular topic and then
there's local
um
I hate that word, but influencer for
that particular topic.
Um that that others can go to, like
asking them about uh I don't know,
rendering, for example. Like it's it's
much
or it feels that
like if you have
a a local person, that's a more they are
more approachable than random Googlers
from all around the world. They would go
to those people easier. Yeah, okay.
That's uh
there there is
one thing that I
find important to mention because I feel
like people forget about it a lot or
easily is that conferences
you might see this one day or this half
day event, but there's like a lot of
work that goes into making these things
happen. Cherry nods vigorously. I I know
that you are you are doing a lot of work
for the larger event specifically.
Um so, an event like this is also a lot
more investment and a lot more time and
and effort spent, right?
So,
Yeah. I think there's
expecting like more wrinkles and like
sleepless nights and stuff.
Oh, no.
But it's all going to be worth it. Yeah,
true. It's worth it. It's worth it.
Like it's exciting.
But I think No, it's exciting.
Yeah, no, no. Yes, and
it's exciting and I think it's not going
to replace the traditional events that
we we have been doing, right? Because
the the beauty of these Search Central
Live events is that we can run a pretty
large number of them. I'm not sure how
many you are planning for the deep dives
per year. Is it like a one-time pilot
right now or do you already
see this happen in the future?
So, for now, it's a pilot, but
definitely we hope that I mean, if
people like it, then of course we're
going to run it again. But then, I don't
think like at least with the current
resources and stuff, I don't think we
can be running like deep dive like five
times a year or things like that. But
um
again, it's also about balancing what
people want. Like do they need like the
deep dive version or the non-deep dive
version? Like in what market? So, these
things are really like something that I
think we will take into account for the
future planning. But for now, this one
is a pilot and it's the only one this
year. Mhm, okay. I see.
Also, for for deep dive or for this
particular deep dive, we were trying to
uh
figure out
a location that people can travel to
easier.
Um because the target audience is not
one country. Like with with Search
Central Live, usually we
um especially in Asia, we we say that we
are expecting people from Japan
uh residing in Japan. Um and you need
um
I don't know, like you need to be able
to speak Thai or or or something like
that. Um with this one,
it is a very wide
range of audiences
that we expect uh to apply.
Um
which also means that like to me that
feels way more inclusive. Mhm. Um and
also more um
well, crazier.
I I I have Crazier is good.
Yeah, well,
here.
Um
but uh we were talking about this with
Cherry that uh like that the event has
to be in English because there there's
no way that you can um
like have local speakers in that case,
right? Because it's like audience from
from multiple countries. But then, do
you bring in translators
and then translate to a billion
languages like UN style?
Or or or how do we deal with that? And I
I I don't know
where we landed on, but uh
it like it it brings in new
complications that
like normal SCL doesn't bring.
Yeah.
Because I'm also slightly crazy, so then
we also started looking at like those
translation logistic of it,
cost and all this and
you know, how it gets really really
messy from there. And that's why I think
for this one it will be in English
first.
And we will see how it goes.
Budgeting is always fun. I remember for
even for the the virtual unconference
where we didn't have like location and
catering,
translation was important when we did
the
localized versions and it's it's a lot
of effort
in just one language. Um so,
ooh.
Yeah.
I I see that. I think that's
of the translation is also really
important, right? And it's like if you
were to promise uh translation, then it
really has to be of like certain
standard so that it is actually useful.
Yeah. And yeah, there's a lot more work
going into that as well to make sure
that it's actually something that people
will benefit from. Yeah. That's that's a
tricky one. I uh we
uh let's see how the pilot is going to
go. I'm I'm looking forward and um
when you say like a a broader audience
and a more mixed audience, what what do
you mean by that specifically? So,
different countries, I I get that, but
is there anything else that you expect
is going to be different in terms of
audience
from normal Search Central Live events?
Uh no, that's that's just what I meant.
Uh I'm okay.
I'm just not working in coms, you know,
so I don't Oh, yeah. No, wording wording
is hard. That's uh Wording is hard. Good
that we are off the record here, right?
Just amongst ourselves.
Um so, knowing that this is a huge
undertaking in the APAC region, is does
that mean that that's going to be the
event for the year in the APAC region or
is it that you're planning like other
events in the region this year as well?
So, because of like time limit and
resources and all that, so we toned down
the number of um the event in APAC this
year a little. So, usually we run like,
I don't know, up to like
six or seven events in the region per
year and stuff. But um for this year
then, because we're doing the deep dive
and as you can see, it's a new thing,
then of course, it takes a lot more
time. So, we only have that one deep
dive um
in the earlier part of the year and at
the end of the year, we're actually
looking at having
two more events.
Um one in Japanese, one in Chinese. But
then, that wouldn't be the deep dive
version. So, it would be Search Central
Live.
Yeah.
Oh my. Oh, that's that's exciting stuff
there. I really
really look forward to that kind of
um event. I was wondering if
we we should probably also look at if
the pilot works successfully, um
if we should like figure out how to get
that into other regions as well. But
let's let's see how the the pilot is
going. This is based on on feedback or
how did you
decide
um to do this in in APAC first?
Well, because I'm based here. So, it's
like, "Okay, let's do it here." And
also, we run a lot of events here. But
like, I think we we just decided APAC
because it's like a pilot and then, of
course, we will look at like other
region as well if this goes well. And I
think one of the thing that So, you talk
about like how things happen and stuff.
We actually for everything, because it's
a new thing, we try to
listen to like everything. Like for
example, from the number of the days,
we're asking people like, "Do you want
it to be a one-day thing or two-day
things, three-day things or more than
three days?"
More than three days sounds a little bit
crazy. That's bananas. Yeah, okay.
I know. But then, yeah. So, things like
that or even the location, right? We ask
people like, "Where would you prefer the
event to be?" Because then, you know,
it's easier for people to travel, easier
for them to
I don't know, like arrange
visa or things like that.
And then, to the content as well, I
think like maybe we should talk a little
bit about content. Like Cherry and I, we
look at like
I think for now in the sheet we list out
all the sessions that we can do and we
had like I don't know what feel like 50
of them already and of course we cannot
cover them all so we're just now like
listing everything and see like what
people would like like and see the
profile of people that are applying and
then again we will arrange that into the
agenda.
Can people already apply for the event
or is that something that is going to
happen in the near future?
So the application opens maybe I think
we're thinking mid to end April.
And then the event is supposed to be
second week or third week of July.
Yeah but then again because we want to
listen to all these feedback and stuff
that's why we first had like the
interest form asking people for all
these things and then we will finalize
the um
details of these locations time and
everything later.
But even like
creating that interest form
um like
we spent so many hours on that stupid
form
um because we had to decide
I think.
Well
things things are relative.
Because like you you have to decide
um
a random well not random like a pretty
fine list of things like for example do
you want one day you you want two day
you want three day you want uh more than
three day events
um
uh do we agree and then we start
chatting about it and then
eventually we reach consensus that okay
like we go with this list but for
example with the locations we were like
zigzagging um search engines looking up
like visa requirements for
for people and like local transportation
like where it's cheaper and where it's
more expensive hotels flights and and
all those things well mostly Cherry was
doing it I was mostly sleeping it it
takes a lot of time and then and then
once we have the feedback then we
actually have to validate it because for
example if
I don't know like 49 people say that we
should do it in I don't remember who's
on the
on the list but or what the locations
are on the list but for example let's
say that people choose Bali.
Um and uh
Bali's on the list right?
It is Denpasar.
Uh Denpasar well not well it's on Bali
Island but then we look at the venues
and the venues are
crazy expensive suddenly because there's
something happening there.
Then it's like
uh
like
we we have to balance budget with
location as well.
Um so
it's weirdly complicated and then
Wait we don't have unlimited budget?
No we don't. Unfortunately we don't no.
That would be nice wouldn't it?
Ah the things we could do with unlimited
budget so many events.
Waiting you would just go diving.
No.
I would go deep diving in search central
life.
Yeah.
More workshops more more sessions more
more things.
I think I think when what what wait
going back to the topics
I I kind of want to talk more about the
topics because Please do.
it's
something that is not
100% clear in my brain
is whether we are going to have
technical topics or we are going to
target more marketingy stuff
or combination of them
of those
or or
how are you imagining it? So are we
doing technical topics or or what are we
targeting?
I think it's also
uh combi so we because we listed down so
many things and we have like like I said
like 50
things as of now and it's still growing
I think what we are going to do is also
we're looking at um the profile of
people who are applying.
That's why we ask so many questions in
the registration form as well
and from there I think it would also be
clearer to us what is more relevant to
people.
Ah.
We do that for normal SCL as well right?
Yeah we do that all the time but um for
normal SCL there's some fixed things
that we always do like for example
because the event might be broader and
we expect like many different um people
and it's a one day thing so it's not a
lot of commitment as much as the deep
dive so then of course like the first
talk is always like something more basic
like bring people to the same level make
sure that people know what's going on
after this make sure that people know
like there are other people of different
profile in that room as well right? So I
think with deep dive it's going to be a
little bit different in a way that we
know that at least um people that are
coming are people who are committed to
that
two days or three days of search. So at
least there's some like clear profile
there like there's some kind of like you
know trends of things that we can expect
that people would want from the event so
might be easier I guess
in that sense.
are we also thinking workshops?
Yeah yeah.
now this sounds like a team meeting.
Yeah.
What kind of workshops would you do at
the the deep dive event? Well we
we could do search console I mean if we
can convince the search console people
to come over or Daniel.
Yeah Daniel is not search console
people.
Well he's sitting next to me in the
office so
Oh.
It's kind of a search console people.
Well
Are you disowning him? No no no no he's
he's part of our team he just has a
particularly
close relationship to search console.
So that's nice.
He knows most about search console I
think. I think apart from like tools
like I mean we're looking at search
console maybe Google Trends um outside
the tools maybe we're also looking at
things like I don't know Gary we talked
about robots.txt as well.
Oh yeah.
We talked about
um playing games as well interactive
stuff. What?
Yeah but that's like pricing
risk.
I wish uh
that would be fun.
Maybe we should do that.
No.
Don't give her ideas Martin.
I I have already done that.
No way stopping me now.
I mean
at least at SCL Asia we we tend to have
some games
or gamey thing.
Like for example the
uh at one point in I think in Singapore
you had the pedals where people could
vote on stuff.
Yeah. Are you considering that a game
okay.
A voting is a game.
have like musical chairs and stuff.
Ah musical chair yeah that was Musical
cherry.
Yeah musical cherry musical chair it was
fun
just a little bit hectic but very fun.
Yeah a little bit.
yeah.
Like people you know like stepping on
each other and things.
It was really fun.
Oh my goodness oh wow okay cool so there
will be workshops um
Lightning talks are also
yeah.
And if we have like a lot of submission
then we're also thinking like poster
sessions maybe.
But um you know like with these things
it's like we need to see first what's
coming in right? Because like we ask
people do you want um to talk like pitch
your idea
um for lightning talk for
I don't know case study sharing things
like that so we need to see what's
coming in how many of them and then only
then we know like what kind of um time
we should be allocated or what kind of
sessions should we be um having. Mhm
yeah that makes sense. All right cool
that's uh
looking forward to see how how the pilot
goes I'm pretty sure it's going to be an
amazing experience and I'm pretty sure
especially because you put in so much
effort up front with like figuring out
what people want
that I'm pretty sure the audience is
going to be very very happy. Can you
even call them an audience if they have
to actually actively do things it's more
like participants right?
But that's that's pretty cool new things
coming to search central life is always
exciting and I think we're seeing a few
cool things happening this year with
search central life so this is one more.
But one more Easter egg.
On your on your side you're also
bringing it to other
Yeah. like new new new locations right?
so last year we brought it yeah right?
Last year we brought it to Turkey people
were pretty happy that we did so it was
nice we also brought it to Romania and
Poland.
Um we will be bringing
Romania? Yes we were.
Without me?
You didn't want to come you had better
things to do apparently.
It was in April I don't know what you
did in April but you weren't
you were too important for us, I think.
Right.
But we are bringing it to
I I am.
I mean, I I assume he was in Bucharest
or something. So, I mean, you can not
from that area, but
Mhm.
Okay. Uh how do you feel about Budapest
because we are bringing it to Budapest
this year?
And you will make me speak Hungarian
because that will be like people will be
in tears.
Oh my god, that would Can we do that?
Making people cry? I don't think we
should.
No, I'm pretty sure they're going to
laugh.
Cry Cry is of like tears of joy.
Tears of joy.
Tears of laughter.
So,
uh back when I joined, uh we we
uh
I had a friend in in Dublin who dragged
me to a Hungarian conference and
um
I very stupidly offered that I would uh
do the presentation in in Hungarian.
And
I couldn't find the words.
Because like I didn't know that like
okay, are you translating crawler to
Hungarian or you are using
um
uh the English term. Are you
like
S E R P serp. Uh when I said the actual
word in Hungarian for like for uh search
result page, people were just like
blinking at me like uh
what that.
Um
so, yeah, it's
it's an interesting experience when you
when you try to to to speak technical
language when you never had to in
previously.
I I had that when I did a German talk
and um
I I think I made a specific effort not
to use any English terms even for things
like tabs like UI element of a tab and
it's like Reiter which is a real word.
It's just like Say it again. I I
couldn't catch it. Kart Reiter.
Okay, that sounds like
times.
Kart Reiter Kart Reiter Kart Reiter.
Faster. And
and Beetlejuice just appeared.
A Kart Reiter appears. Yes.
Um so, and and it it just caused like
people to laugh their their butts off in
the in the audience. That was quite
funny.
Uh yes, so we are bringing it to
Budapest. Uh we will be bringing it to
the Baltics probably. Um we will
definitely do one in in uh Zurich as
well and
uh in Poland in Warsaw again.
And we are bringing it to South
Yeah, we did one in last year. Yeah,
last last year. Yeah.
Again, you were too important and too
busy for us. I'm so sorry.
Yeah. Uh and we will be doing the first
one in Africa in South Africa more
specifically. So,
very excited to
Oh, I love it there.
to open the
one ever, right? In Africa.
Yeah. Really really exciting one. I'm
really really looking forward to it.
Yes. So, that's
Wait a minute.
Then we only have to do one in Australia
and one in Antarctica and then we cover
the whole world. Yes. Yeah.
I'm down for both locations.
Can I do Antarctica?
Nice.
Was that a pun?
That was a pun, but
is closer to me.
Yeah. Well, yeah, that's true. I think.
I think I think you're closer to
Antarctica. No, I think you're closer.
Okay, I'm hungry. Can we go now?
Hungary, I thought Romanian. Not hungry
hungry.
Ah, okay. Sorry.
Uh so, if people want to know more about
the events that we will be bringing to
the world this year, where should they
go and how do they apply?
They should go to their favorite search
engine and search for Search Central
Live. Or go to
developers.google.com/search
where we also list them, I think, right?
Yeah. Yes.
Cool.
Why do they have to apply anyway? Like
why why can't they just like score a
seat?
Apply? Yeah.
Oh.
Well, we have limited seats like um we
talk about, you know, unlimited budget
things that we don't have. And um you
know, so we have limited seats and all
that. And also, I think with limited
seats, it's not just about budget and
stuff, right? It's also making it more,
I think, I don't know like
cozy, making it easier for people to
interact as well when the event gets
really really big. Sometimes it gives
you different vibes and like different
things too. So, yeah, that's why they
would have to apply and then um
hopefully they will receive confirmation
email and then we will see them at the
event.
Nice. Fantastic. In that case, uh thanks
so much for coming on uh both to you,
Cherry and Gary, and talk to me a little
bit about our wonderful plans for Search
Central Live this year. And I think
that's it for this episode already. Oh.
That sounds really cool, Cherry and
Gary. Cherry and Gary. Cherry and Gary.
Cherry and Gary. Cherry and Gary.
Awesome. Anyway, thanks so much for
being here and I hope uh that people out
there found this useful and
informational and interesting and um
yeah. Thank you everyone out there for
listening and uh
bye-bye. Bye.
Bye.
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